2019-04-17

Mischievous Mythicists At It Again

This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License.

by Neil Godfrey

We saw it first on Valerie Tarico’s website, and now, right on the eve of Easter, it pops up in full bloom on Alternet:

https://www.alternet.org/2019/04/what-if-jesus-never-existed/

Or go to the original base:

What if Jesus Never Existed? An Interview with History Writer David Fitzgerald

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Latest posts by Neil Godfrey (see all)

Is Everything a Question of Probability? - 2024-12-15 03:04:03 GMT+0000
The Folly of Bayesian Probability in “Doing History” - 2024-12-13 05:51:46 GMT+0000
Jesus Mythicism and Historical Knowledge, Part 4: Did Jesus Exist? - 2024-11-27 08:20:47 GMT+0000

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10 thoughts on “Mischievous Mythicists At It Again”

r.g.price says:

2019-04-17 07:54:17 GMT+0000 at 07:54

Hmmm I was going to send AlterNet a copy of my book when it came out, but then I thought, nah.. Oh well.

Reply
1. GraeMac says:
  
  2019-04-17 10:31:06 GMT+0000 at 10:31
  
  It’s not too late to.
  
  Reply
r.g.price says:

2019-04-17 14:04:38 GMT+0000 at 14:04

While we’re at it, here is a recent article on RawStory : https://www.rawstory.com/2019/04/evidence-jesus-ever-existed-weaker-might-think/
I did notice that the article cites an article of mine on rationalrevolution, which I’m dubious about in terms of the level of scholarship if they are citing me that way, but anyway :p

Overall I think the piece is coherent and puts forward a relatively good profile of the case.

Reply
db says:

2019-04-17 16:04:57 GMT+0000 at 16:04

• A required quote for any Easter posting:

Neil Godfrey (28 October 2018). “Response #4: Non Sequitur’s Tim O’Neill presentation, …. Your turn“. Vridar.

[O]n the whole the “scholars” do not argue for the historicity of Jesus but work on other questions on the assumption that he existed. When asked to justify that assumption the responses are, too often unfortunately, logically invalid, question begging, divorced from normative scholarly approaches to sources, misrepresenting the questions posed, and…. condescending, abusive. On the principle that all authorities ought to be held to account, such responses deserve to be set aside and the question should be pursued.

Reply
1. db says:
  
  2019-04-17 17:40:43 GMT+0000 at 17:40
  
  • Or, if you are an “old school” fan:
  
  Bauer, Bruno (1842). Kritik der evangelischen Geschichte der Synoptiker (in German). 3. O. Wigand. p. 308.
  
  Everything that the historical ~~Christ~~ [Jesus] is, everything that is said of him, everything that is known of him, belongs to the world of imagination, that is, of the imagination of the Christian community, and therefore has nothing to do with any man who belongs to the real world.
  
  Reply
  1. MrHorse says:
    
    2019-04-17 21:38:59 GMT+0000 at 21:38
    
    … everything that is said of him [Christ Jesus], everything that is known of him, belongs to the world of imagination, that is, of the imagination of the Christian community, and therefore has nothing to do with any man who belongs to the real world.
    
    There is often talk of Christ Jesus being a composite figure, but that could mean he was (and is) a composite of various communities’/sects’ beliefs in different Jesuses* or Christs^ [or Chrestuses^].
    
    ישוע / Yeshua, Ἰησοῦς / Iēsous
    
    Reply
    1. db says:
      
      2019-04-17 22:58:51 GMT+0000 at 22:58
      
      • Every region or congregation had likely chosen one or another Gospel as its authoritative holy text
      
      Per Carrier (23 September 2016) [now bolded]. “Three Things to Know about New Testament Manuscripts”. Richard Carrier Blogs.
      
      As Trobisch points out, calling any book “The Gospel According to” was extremely unique and bizarre in the history of ancient literature, so much so that there is no possible way the four Gospels all came to have such a peculiar title form, consistently throughout all known manuscripts, by accident.
      
      Accordingly, this means whoever produced this singular c. 150 A.D. edition [of the New Testament] (I’ll just call it the C150 edition), also named the four Gospels.
      […]
      Since every region or congregation had likely chosen one or another Gospel as its authoritative holy text, then to bring in the most regions and congregations, the editor of C150 cobbled together a political alliance among the largest possible number of those, using the four Gospels found in our canon. Hence those four were chosen. Because when their constituents were added up, they far outnumbered Marcion’s.
      
      Reply
MrHorse says:

2019-04-28 01:58:04 GMT+0000 at 01:58

^ Χριστός / Christus: ‘annointed [one]’

Χρήστός / Chrēstós: ‘good’, ‘useful’

Reply
1. Neil Godfrey says:
  
  2019-04-28 09:31:17 GMT+0000 at 09:31
  
  Apologies, MrHorse — your comment had been caught up in spam for some mysterious reason. It is here now…
  
  Reply
2. Martin Klatt says:
  
  2019-04-28 15:28:05 GMT+0000 at 15:28
  
  How about “the slippery[one]”?
  
  Reply

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Neil Godfrey on The Folly of Bayesian Probability in “Doing History”: “A troll is someone who ignores what is being said and continues their own agenda without engaging with the logic…” Dec 21, 03:26
Petr Jancar on The Folly of Bayesian Probability in “Doing History”: “I am still once more responding, so that you do not think that I am impolite or that I am…” Dec 20, 07:22
Neil Godfrey on The Folly of Bayesian Probability in “Doing History”: “I re-read my earlier reply and can see how you took it as “emotional” — but I can assure you…” Dec 18, 02:43
Neil Godfrey on The Folly of Bayesian Probability in “Doing History”: “I simply asked you to tell me what it is that you think I misunderstand or what, specifically, I am…” Dec 17, 20:26
Petr Jancar on The Folly of Bayesian Probability in “Doing History”: “Neil, I have no interest to engage in an emotional discussion. I felt indebted to you, since I read many…” Dec 17, 19:21
Neil Godfrey on The Folly of Bayesian Probability in “Doing History”: “Why do you ask? What are you trying to argue? I agree and acknowledge that Bayes theorem is a valid…” Dec 16, 09:22
Petr Jancar on The Folly of Bayesian Probability in “Doing History”: “My sentence “I voice several assumptions, testing if we all agree on them:” was meant as a yes/no question; let…” Dec 16, 08:57
Clarke W Owens on Is Everything a Question of Probability?: “Well, the distinction between “public knowledge” and the knowledge of professional researchers is not always crystal clear. For example, western…” Dec 15, 22:34
Neil Godfrey on Is Everything a Question of Probability?: “I spoke of public knowledge but afterwards wondered if I missed your point. You may have been thinking of knowledge…” Dec 15, 22:05

What if Jesus Never Existed? An Interview with History Writer David Fitzgerald

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